Apparently there is already a separate symbol for speech dash, which is —. However its keyboard shortcut is obscure and I couldn’t remember it later, but Markdown already covered this it seems. Writing --- renders as —, which I’ll do from now on, if I don’t forget about it next time.
Would putting a Q: and A: in front of them satisfy you or would that send you off on a different tangent of chastising web users on their formatting?
Maybe instead of people needing to apply exacting rules to accommodate an accessibility tech, the tech should get better at interpreting human tendencies of writing. Even today I can write in a non-structured natural language form and a decent chat bot can typically make a reasonable interpretation of it without help.
Maybe instead of people needing to apply exacting rules to accommodate an accessibility tech
Nah, writing a space the conventional way suffices: - SPACE list item.
Even aesthetically, the plain text looks atrocious without a space there & worse when rendered.
The technology is fine, there was even a button in the toolbar.
It’s not that hard to figure out to anyone trying: there’s a preview button & they can edit.
All anyone has to do is (1) follow regular convention or (2) use the technology.
Getting this wrong despite the technology & standard convention is less a technology problem & more a user problem.
Edit: I understand what you both meant now: quotation dashes.
They’re less common in English, but still correct!
Edited my comment above to reflect this.
Thanks.
I don’t have a screen reader installed so I cannot try it but I can guess how it can screw with it. However I agree with Monkey With A Shell here. It’s not realistic for all users to follow semantics, this can only be solved with a better software.
While I use markdown daily, apparently there are still things I don’t know about it. Well, I mostly learn them when I need them but still. So, I could use — (speech dash) instead of -, which I assume wouldn’t cause a problem with a screen reader. There is no way for me to remember its shortcut on the keyboard, but it seems Markdown already covered this with --- which ends up rendered as —.
Thanks for making me noticing about it, learned something new today.
It’s not realistic for all users to follow semantics
Not realistic for users to write lists the normal way that doesn’t look wrong?
I don’t know guys
-first
-second
-third
looks obviously bad whereas
- first
- second
- third
looks right.
Then you see the rendered result in preview.
You also had a button in the toolbar to create a list.
I don’t think this is asking much.
If you weren’t trying to write a list, though, then I don’t know what you were doing & I doubt a chat bot will either: could you link to an example of what you were trying to do?
For all you know, I’m a chat bot not figuring out your intent.
No technology is about to fix PEBKAC.
I think the bottom line is if you write lists normally, then everything else including accessibility will turn out right without you needing to understand the intricacies.
Yeah its not a thing in English. In Spanish it is as well and learning to read novels in English was a bit confusing at first. I believe the official name is en dash or em dash I forget which
Didn’t really notice until now, though it seems some English speaking people used these dashes in their books apparently but I don’t think I ever read one of them. It’s hilarious to see these cultural differences may cause problems like this. :)
You had me pondering…yes, quotation dash: it is a thing in English, just less common!
Please disregard what I wrote before: you had it almost correct, but use quotation dashes― as you suggested before.
Some OSes offer nice character pickers for less common punctuation: for example, Windows summons it with WindowsKey-..
Apologies.
No worries. I tried to look on my English novels first but couldn’t find anything like this. I was almost certain that I saw this in one of the Roald Dahls but nope. Well, learned the official name of it too, quotation dash. Thanks.
By the way, Meta (Windows key) + . opens emoji list in KDE.
Well, that’s the reason why I didn’t write it like that. I wanted it to look like a dash, just like in novels.
By the way, Markdown also takes escape
\, which is why sometimes the shrugging emoticon is missing left arm.- So this
- also works with space
So you don’t even necessarily have to leave out the space.
Apparently there is already a separate symbol for speech dash, which is —. However its keyboard shortcut is obscure and I couldn’t remember it later, but Markdown already covered this it seems. Writing
---renders as —, which I’ll do from now on, if I don’t forget about it next time.So breaking accessibility for the heck of it? How forward-thinking.
How is it breaking accessibility?
Good question: for basic accessibility, structure should be conveyed, which adds
The web supports programmatic relationships through correct markup, so the technique using semantic elements to mark up structure applies, specifically by using ol, ul and dl for lists or groups of links or the markdown equivalent.
If you want to experience this yourself, then put on a blindfold, use a screenreader & compare your “list” to mine.
It doesn’t look like a list to me, but a riddle.
Would putting a Q: and A: in front of them satisfy you or would that send you off on a different tangent of chastising web users on their formatting?
Maybe instead of people needing to apply exacting rules to accommodate an accessibility tech, the tech should get better at interpreting human tendencies of writing. Even today I can write in a non-structured natural language form and a decent chat bot can typically make a reasonable interpretation of it without help.
Then the
-weren’t needed.-SPACE list item. Even aesthetically, the plain text looks atrocious without a space there & worse when rendered.All anyone has to do is (1) follow regular convention or (2) use the technology. Getting this wrong despite the technology & standard convention is less a technology problem & more a user problem.
Edit: I understand what you both meant now: quotation dashes. They’re less common in English, but still correct! Edited my comment above to reflect this. Thanks.
I don’t have a screen reader installed so I cannot try it but I can guess how it can screw with it. However I agree with Monkey With A Shell here. It’s not realistic for all users to follow semantics, this can only be solved with a better software.
While I use markdown daily, apparently there are still things I don’t know about it. Well, I mostly learn them when I need them but still. So, I could use
—(speech dash) instead of-, which I assume wouldn’t cause a problem with a screen reader. There is no way for me to remember its shortcut on the keyboard, but it seems Markdown already covered this with---which ends up rendered as—.Thanks for making me noticing about it, learned something new today.
Not realistic for users to write lists the normal way that doesn’t look wrong? I don’t know guys
looks obviously bad whereas
- first - second - thirdlooks right. Then you see the rendered result in preview. You also had a button in the toolbar to create a list.
I don’t think this is asking much.
If you weren’t trying to write a list, though, then I don’t know what you were doing & I doubt a chat bot will either: could you link to an example of what you were trying to do? For all you know, I’m a chat bot not figuring out your intent. No technology is about to fix PEBKAC.
I think the bottom line is if you write lists normally, then everything else including accessibility will turn out right without you needing to understand the intricacies.
I definitely wasn’t trying to write a list, it was a riddle or a conversation. What I was trying to do is this:
Though, it seems speech dash is not a thing in English. So I understand the confusion.
Yeah its not a thing in English. In Spanish it is as well and learning to read novels in English was a bit confusing at first. I believe the official name is en dash or em dash I forget which
Didn’t really notice until now, though it seems some English speaking people used these dashes in their books apparently but I don’t think I ever read one of them. It’s hilarious to see these cultural differences may cause problems like this. :)
You had me pondering…yes, quotation dash: it is a thing in English, just less common!
Please disregard what I wrote before: you had it almost correct, but use quotation dashes
―as you suggested before. Some OSes offer nice character pickers for less common punctuation: for example, Windows summons it with WindowsKey-.. Apologies.No worries. I tried to look on my English novels first but couldn’t find anything like this. I was almost certain that I saw this in one of the Roald Dahls but nope. Well, learned the official name of it too, quotation dash. Thanks.
By the way, Meta (Windows key) +
.opens emoji list in KDE.