Pre.cook.ur.brats👏
Just to avoid any false impressions: healthcare is not free in Germany. You should always get travel health insurance. Having said that, it’s pretty affordable. I pay about €80 a year for me and my wife for worldwide coverage.
Where do you get travel health insurance from?
From commercial providers. It’s not necessary for EU Citizens travelling inside the EU/EEA as they are treated like people in the national systems for emergencies.
But it simplifies a lot because you can go to any doctor and sometimes they play dumb and pretend they don’t know about the rules and want to force you to pay out of pocket (Happened to me in Austria, I’ve just reported them to the Austrian Health Insurance, he wanted 200€ which is outrageous overpriced and was a contracted doctor of ÖGK). Especially in Eastern Europe. But that applies only to GPs, Hospitals usually play by the rules.
And it’s also useful for travelling outside of the EU
Especially in Eastern Europe.
In post-Soviet countries, it was sadly normal that doctors would demand bribes on top of state insurance. The most outrageous shit I heard was and ob/gyn charging a months salary for a birth, half a month if it turned out to be a girl.
Same in Ireland but a trip to the emergency room (including ambulance if you need it) sets you back €100 euro which is about $110 USD.
2nd last time I was in one there was an American couple across from us whose daughter had gone into a seizure in their hotel. We ended up chatting a good bit and I honestly was very glad for them that they weren’t paying American pricing.
Last time I was in one we had a referral from our doctor so it was free (there’s a filtering process to stop people with a cold coming to emergency) Included an MRI for my daughter and we’ve a follow up coming. Again all free.
So when you say it’s not free, it’s strictly true but holy moly the difference in potentially life destroying cost and not having to weigh that up. It saves lives.
In Germany you would need to pay a copay for the ambulance between 5-10€, the emergency room would be fully covered. Only if you get admitted you would be charged a copay of 10€/day up to 30 days a year. For prescription medications there is also a copay between 5-10€ for each of them.
All Co-Pays are capped at 2% of your yearly income, or 1% if you suffer from chronic diseases
My son was in the hospital for 4 days and the charge was $20,000.
The ER visit before admitting was a separate $2,000 charge.We have insurance, so we only had to pay around $8,000 out of pocket. It would have been less, but some of the people in the hospital didn’t take our insurance, and our insurance also said that some procedures were overpriced so they only paid the amount they thought was fair.
We didn’t get to pick any of the people who provided care, and we were not presented with the ability to negotiate on prices to make sure our insurance wasn’t being taken advantage of while they were doing respiratory therapy on our baby.
Our entire system needs to be torn the fuck down and be replaced with something entirely free. I don’t even give a fuck about people abusing the system at this point. Fuck it, let it cover elective cosmetic surgery. Never say no to anyone unless the doctor says it first.
My taxes will go up, but I can fucking promise they won’t go up by as much as I’d be saving in premium.
Because of right, I pay hundreds of dollars a month for the insurance that then only pays once I get fucked hard enough, and then still doesn’t pay for all of it.
Fuck the entire industry, fire them all and seize their assets.And I’m well off compared to a lot of people.
Better yet, have Mario pay them a visit. They have more than earned it! 👹
The American system for me.
Halfway through the year cost so far:
Relatively inexpensive union insurance for the family $2310. Out of pocket expenses so far $3,700. Total $6010 so far…
Estimated total by the end of the year - $2310 in insurance premiums, 3,000 out of pocket.
Yearly estimated total $11,320.
2 years ago we had the corporate America special. Premium was $16,200, out of pocket was 8,000. $24,200 was the total cost. It was 26.8% of my gross income that year.
Well 2310$ per year isn’t that much.
In Germany the statutory Health insurance is 14,6% of your salary, capped at a maximum of 942€/month (half paid by you, half paid by your employer ), this also covers your children and your wife if she’s not working.
But on the other hand, there won’t be any significant out of pocket expenses here
Tourists pay for healthcare in Britain, and pay a charge as part of the visa costs, as well as expenses if they use it. except for emergency care, which is always free for everyone.
That’s basically free to Americans. We pay that per visit if we are lucky. Health insurance here exists to make a profit, not to help people out when they need it.
More death = More profit
It’s only the charge for the extra travel insurance. The actual health care itself costs a lot more and depends on your income. Don’t think it’s just 80€ a month. I wish it were
Correct. That’s just travel insurance. Regular health insurance is calculated as a percentage of your salary and it’s anything but cheap. A lot better than in the US, though.
I pay $250 in copay if I drive too close to a hospital in the US.
But after $5,500 out of pocket, the insurance will start paying.
It’s literally robbery. They’re legal thieves. They collect until you’re dead, and they sure as hell aren’t lifting a finger to keep you alive.
United Healthcare got caught forging DNRs. So they will definitely lift a finger, to kill you!
“When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.”
That’s literal, actual murder. No hyperbole.
Faking documentation to make people die
Here in the U.S., we let billionaires tell us which of two candidates are “electable”, and we then argue over which one is “better”.
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
I thought there was going to be some punchline and I was quite confused at the end, what else would paramedics do if some kid was sick? Then I read the comments and remembered about America… I genuinely don’t know how people can live in a country that is so antagonistic to its own citizens.
It’s all we know and most of us don’t have any other choice. It’s wild the stuff humans can normalize when you grow up with it and are surrounded by it.
When Americans do nice things in their country … they destroy it and call it communism or “woke”
When Americans are treated nice in a foreign country, they act confused and wonder why their country can’t do the same.
I think a lot of people in the US have their head so far up their ass being racist and doing other xenophobia, they’d rather drown in their own shit than than have “one of them” get something “for free”.
That’s what 60+ years of fascism-directed conservative politics distributed by the likes of Fox News, systematic defunding of public education, and an almost complete halt in wage increases so 90% of the population no longer has any discretionary income and is essentially forced to work paycheck to paycheck has given us. It’s working exactly as intended.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
-President Lyndon B. JohnsonThe US is an experiment in how much the people will take before they actually start a revolution. Turns out they take it all and they won’t start a revolution ever.
Without exception, every problem with the US has a straightforward and realizable solution being blocked by a piece of shit who cannot accept even the slimmest of chances that someone they consider undeserving might possibly, in some small way, benefit.
I don’t think that is the motive.
Usually there is a middleman that is blocking and change because they will lose money otherwise.
It’s both, the middle man gets to do his thing because of the racism of the others.
The middle man also does everything he can to feed and expand that racism in order to benefit from it.
In America, it’s actually cheaper just to discard the kid and start over.
I know expensive, shitty healthcare in the USA is a stereotype, but in my experience it’s also largely true. Maybe it’s because I’m not wealthy or connected enough to have access to the good stuff, though?
The bills for my latest medical emergency are rolling in now.
The $1,000 USD ambulance bill is almost a relief, since I’ve heard others say their ride cost several times more than that. I declined pretty much all medical care in the ambulance and all offers for medication/treatment, though, so maybe that’s part of it. Had I lost consciousness, I likely wouldn’t have been able to say no.
The $2,000 USD emergency room bill? That’s just the part that I have to pay out of pocket. The actual price they charged my insurance is $6,000+ for my slightly more than 90 minutes on a stretcher in the hallway. And it doesn’t seem to have covered anything specific because the imaging (which I didn’t even need), treatment, medications (which I would have refused if I knew how much they charged but they don’t know that and can’t tell you ahead of time), individual nurses, etc are all billed as separate line items. I was even charged thousands of dollars by a doctor I never even saw in person. I joked in another thread recently about $45 tylenol, but that’s actually true. I’m paying $45 for 800mg of tylenol.
Months later, the billing part isn’t even finalized. New claims/bills showed up literally 2 days ago, well after I thought I was done paying. Thousands of dollars out of pocket, on top of paying a thousand dollars a month for insurance.
At least the medical professionals that treated me were great.
I know expensive, shitty healthcare in the USA is a stereotype, but in my experience it’s also largely true
I had a brain injury from a bicycle accident. The fact that my health has bounced back, but my finances likely never will, tells me everything I need to know about our system. One injury, and I now have a lifetime of bills to pay off. I guess it makes sense in some sick way, I do owe them my life, but man, they don’t let me forget (even if my broken brain tries).
Over 60% of all private bankruptcies in the US are due to medical issues. The system is broken
The system is working as designed.
It’s designed to be predatory and evil.
Two major studies in California found 70% of the homeless were employed “productive” members of society before injury/illness forced loss of income, then housing. Yes the system is broken.
At least the medical professionals that treated me were great
last time i was in the hospital in the states the nurses and the hospitalist intentionally tried to kill me via malpractice.
I’ve had good hospital experiences, but not in the last ten years.
As someone who hasn’t been to a hospital since he was 13 I would love to hear wtf I’m in for when it inevitably happens. Why would they do that? What did they do? Was it subtle? Stupid?
I’ve worked in a few US hospitals (in the lab, but we worked closely with nurses and doctors) and by far the biggest danger I observed (other than insurance practicing medicine without a license) was nurses and doctors making mistakes due to sleep deprivation. Doctors and nurses will work 14 hours, get called in to the ER multiple times throughout the night, and then try to work another 12 hour shift without sleep.
Another huge risk factor was overworking nurses by giving them too many patients to care for. Nurses need patient caps of 5 or 6 because each additional patient increases the risk of someone dying by 20%
short version, not subtle, very stupid. i had an acute condition with one and only one accepted course of treatment. nurse put in orders to do something very different, which likely would have caused a massive organ rupture if i wasn’t keeping track of every minutiae they did while trying to treat me. i refused the new treatment and wasn’t harmed, but the MD signed off on it. as it was i left the hospital severly dehydrated because they were refusing me IV fluids while i was NPO.
This is crazy. I once stayed at a hospital for two months, countless ultrasounds, even an invasive procedure where they sent probes down my veins, two MRI’s and the final cost was around 5k… payed by state supplied insurance. I payed 0 and even got payed 80% of my wages… cause that’s the law.
9 months of chemo, countless tests, scans, meds, consults, two stints in ICU…$0
'Straayaaaaa
I showed up in Italy to work on a farm for a month.
Ate the wrong thing one night, and my airways started closing up. Despite my Americanism coming through “dont call the ambulance, I can feel the benadryl kicking in”, my hosts called an ambulance.
After a 45 minute ambulance ride, a 5 hour hospital stay including chest x ray, monitoring, and fluids, I was trying to pay up. The doctor lady just laughed at me as a I flashed my debit card. They sent me on my way with some albuterol for $0.
We really do everything we can to enrich health execs here in America. Crazy to think about the mental benefits of knowing you live in a society that at least has the capacity to get you through a medical emergency without bankrupting you.
This is the most “American abroad” story I ever read lol
Even in Canada and Mexico this mostly works the same
IIRC, an ambulance here in Canada costs 80 dollars, any treatment in hospital is free
A single accident or illness can ruin your life and your family
Spending a single day at school can kill a child
If they live though that day, they might learn that abstinence is great sex Ed
Police officers can kill you without reason with impunity
Your leaders are all millionaires who will do anything to squeeze money out of you and you never even protest?
The US is a god godawful place to live
I would be INFURIATED if MY Tax Dollars went to THAT INSTEAD of Elon Musk’s POCKETS!
Won’t someone think of the ROCKETS
I was living in Germany in the '80s. My mom, a civilian US citizen, had to get a hysterectomy. She chose to go to a German hospital (as opposed to the US Military hospital) and just pay whatever it cost. She mentioned the other day she doesn’t think they ever sent her a bill.
as a European it blows my mind that this is not the norm is many parts of the world :(
I had a relative who once had a serious emergent heart problem (not a heart attack) in Italy. Ambulance to the ER, admitted to hospital for several days, ran a gazillion tests and procedures; huge workup. Was billed because no national insurance.
Grand total: €200. Not even worth trying to claim on American insurance.
It’s what you get in civilized societies. Really the US is so far behind it gets overmaken by a bunch of what they consider 3rd world countries, while those countries have a war going on.
It does seem to be a bit of a toss-up between countries whether or not you will actually get charged. Supposedly international visitors to the UK are supposed to get charged but no one seems to know how to actually bill anyone, so it never happens. Weirdly the government doesn’t seem all that interested in fixing it either, so it kind of just exists as a pseudo international free healthcare service.
