• JuBe@lemmy.world
    shield
    M
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    edit-2
    5 days ago

    NOTE: This article is from more than 7 months ago.

    Edit: I’m on my phone, so forgive any formatting snafus, but I just recently responded to a question about why that Substack post was removed for, and I think it is applicable here.

    I’m a mod on c/politics. I don’t speak for any of the other mods, and while I don’t recall interacting with your specific post, I’ll give you two reasons today that would likely be sufficient to me, for why I would have removed that post. (1) It’s an article to a Substack post, which isn’t necessarily dispositive, but the author is unknown (at least to me), which is a ding against its credibility. (2) I don’t know enough about the author’s intent to know whether to characterize the article as mis- or dis-information, but I’ve been involved in elections for more than a decade, so I know that I can say — unequivocally — that the information the author is spewing, is incorrect. Specifically, the author demonstrates ignorance of the technology and logistics involved in the administration of elections, along with different methods of verification.

    And just to be clear, the 2024 election was not perfect and there was institutionalized voter suppression; however, that Substack post is not rooted in fact.

    The response I got from that post was (the other person quoting me):

    I’ve been involved in elections for more than a decade, so I know that I can say — unequivocally — that the information the author is spewing, is incorrect.

    This seems to be stating that we must accept what you say at face value without evidence. (End of the other person’s quote.)

    To which I responded, and I would say is just as applicable here:

    Okay, well here are some facts that you can confirm with anyone else who has been involved in election administration that support my point:

    • The individual or group of individuals involved in administering elections, varies from state to state, and sometimes even more, within a state, so extrapolating from a single case and assuming you could apply that to explain a nationwide election demonstrates a lack of familiarity with election administration.
    • The technology involved in administering elections, varies from state to state, and sometimes even more, within a state, so extrapolating from a single case and assuming you could apply that to explain a nationwide election demonstrates a lack of familiarity with election administration.
    • The article completely skips over addressing how any of these changes wouldn’t be caught during count verification steps.

    Those are three things undermining the article’s credibility that you can confirm for yourself. It’s spewing the same kind of bullshit theories that I heard about the 2020 election, and spent the years since, fighting. I didn’t like the outcome of the 2024 election either, but I know what I’m talking about.

    • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      4 days ago

      I just came back to this thread because I wanted to say: thank you for this write up, you got a lot of details I neglected to mention. The most important of which is that elections are run at the state level and every state is going to have their own security and cybersecurity teams, and the assumptions made in this treat it like either every cybersecurity team in every state is grossly incompetent or the cybersecurity teams were somehow “in on it” and kept their mouths shut (not a skill most of the people in Trumps orbit seem to have) or that the Trump admin had been sitting on a massive zero-day exploit to be used at the right moment, through the right channels, with the right pieces of hardware installed in the right spots every place they needed them (once again, these people are not good about keeping quiet about such things). Which, to me, all three are so highly implausible it really makes no sense to make grand conspiracies in your own head about it all.

    • FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      4 days ago

      It’s wild that a mod can just decide what is misinformation based on whether they personally know who the author is or not.

      Just post your rebuttal as a comment. Objectively, you are hardly a more reliable source than the person who wrote this.

      You may “know what you’re talking about,” but how do I know that you know? Why should I believe that your opinion is more correct?

      • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 days ago

        Okay, well here are some facts that you can confirm with anyone else who has been involved in election administration that support my point:

        I’m quoting OP to make a point here, and that point is they gave you an opportunity to validate the evidence they were presenting and not just take their word for it.

        I have never worked in elections but have done enough research on elections to agree with the mod that these are indisputable facts. Elections are run at state and county levels and at each level you literally have security and cybersecurity teams that have to work with each other but were all hired by different groups: State, county, city. Due to this, processes will be different at each level and in each city/county/state. Similarly, each place will be sourcing their hardware from a different vendor, meaning it is highly implausible that somehow they all had the correct Tripp Lite devices in place in all the right districts and that the cybersecurity teams were either all grossly incompetent or somehow in on a grand conspiracy. Hell, I’ve had a government job for a short time, and even different agencies in the same government will be using different vendors than another agency. There is no overarching “you have to get your equipment from this specific vendor and no one else” more like “you can get your equipment from this large group of vendors who fit the specifications and requirements our city/county/state government has.”

        These are things you can research and verify. The mod isn’t just asking you to their their word on it, they provide evidence and give you the opportunity to go verify that evidence for yourself. To go ask the people who run your local elections and find out. Not just trust the musings of some random asshat on the internet. Also the whole “elections are run at the state level” thing should be pretty common knowledge because that’s basic civics.

    • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      5 days ago

      Click the “more direct source” in the body of the post for a recent tie-in of how it fits in with Rockland county etc.

      • JuBe@lemmy.worldM
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        5 days ago

        I just updated my comment, to reflect another conversation about that Substack, and the short of it is: that Substack post is misinformation.

        I know it probably wasn’t your intent, but In the future though, please don’t use a “shell” article to post other content.

  • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    edit-2
    5 days ago

    I’m just gonna say it: Everything about everyone involved in this administration screams people who are hired for their loyalty, not their skillsets.

    The theory that they used Uninterruptible Power Supplies to modify the vote, and that they had enough people involved to pull this off, yet everyone kept their mouth shut, is not the level of competency I have seen from anyone in Trump’s orbit.

    As someone with a background in tech, I find it hard to believe. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. They can make up all the stories about they want in their own heads, until there’s some proof of it, it’s just as bullshit as Trump’s claims of election fraud.

    If Eaton pushed an update to those UPS units, it could have gained root-level access to the host tabulation environment—without ever modifying certified election software.

    So yeah, we’re gonna have to have a hell of a lot more to go on than “could have” here. Also I’m skeptical on the claim that Windows automatically trusts any connected UPS and skeptical about the “root level access” claim (including the fact that it is called administrator access on Windows, Windows doesn’t have “root” accounts).

    Part of the reason I’m skeptical on the root-level access claim regarding a UPS. If you could do this with any old UPS, this would make any and every UPS in existence a major attack vector to every computer and computer network in existence. I find it hard to believe that cybersecurity experts would have somehow missed this in the last 20 years that commercial level UPS’s have been in use. That it was just somehow conveniently overlooked that you could override server administration with a UPS. I don’t buy that.

    EDIT: All this being said, I think a court case to reveal any evidence that is there is important. It’s highly improbable but not impossible and so I hope the court case moves forward quickly.

    • Nougat@fedia.io
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      5 days ago

      I’ve been listening to a great podcast series about Titanic. (This will come around, bear with me.)

      One of the things mentioned in the latest episode is that it didn’t take long for conspiracy theories to develop about the sinking, that it had to have been done on purpose. Because there are a lot of people who didn’t want to believe the truth: that it was possible for the largest luxury liner ever built could go to the bottom of the north Atlantic in two and a half hours on its maiden voyage on accident.

      The uncomfortable truth about this last election is that, yes, enough people willfully voted for fascism to put this administration in place. The United States is much further away from the ideal we’d all been led to believe it has strived to be, so far that it’s clear that it’s not even striving for that ideal anymore. That truth is so unconscionable to some people that accepting a conspiracy theory is more palatable.

      • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        5 days ago

        That truth is so unconscionable to some people that accepting a conspiracy theory is more palatable.

        It’s really hurtful to the mind of a kind-hearted person. It says a lot of dark things about humanity in general that this nation was so easily steered into this. It’s valid to want to reject it, but I’d rather live in the dark reality and face it than do like the MAGAts and retreat to the safety of fantasy and fiction that it just has to be a conspiracy to explain how so many people are so terrible. Nope, humans are really that fucked.

    • the_q@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      5 days ago

      Except for Trump letting slip that without musk and those voting machines he would have lost and during the Twitter fight between the 2 musk said Trump wouldn’t be president without him.

      • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        5 days ago

        I feel like Trump is kinda the type of guy who would say shit just to stir the pot. Plus, fascist love for the public to think they are more competent than they really are, especially if it makes them seem like they are the underdog pulling one over on the establishment. Same thing works for musk.

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          5 days ago

          This, they will always say they are going to win even if they’re not, they will always say they’ve won even if they haven’t.

          See: Musk v. Zuckerberg. Musk acts like he won even though he’s a pudgy fat shit and never even stepped into the ring with Zuckerberg. It’s projection of power, and people are giving them power by believing it.

          Musk and Trump would have said they were winning no matter what. They would have said they won no matter what. If they lost they would say the “mainstream media” lied.

      • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        5 days ago

        Circumstantial evidence is not evidence. Further, this story is about Tripp Lite, which last I checked, isn’t owned by Musk. It’s owned by Eaton. Gonna have to jump through a lot of mental hoops to connect Eaton and Musk.

        Have you ever considered that they would say they were going to win even if they weren’t? That part of how fascism and fascists work is by projecting power by never admitting weakness? Saying you’re the winner, even after you’ve lost, is common for both Trump and Musk.

        • phutatorius@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          4 days ago

          Circumstantial evidence is not evidence.

          It is according to common law, and can even be used to convict.

        • the_q@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          5 days ago

          The problem is is that Trump cheating is more than plausible. You’re right that real evidence is absolutely required.

          • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            5 days ago

            And they did cheat. They cut millions from voter rolls. They spent more time questioning whether signatures on mail-in voters were valid. They did more gerrymandering. They, in general, did their damnedest to make it harder for people vote. They used disinformation campaigns and foreign actors to influence social media. The thing about it is, they do a lot more of it out in the open than people want to admit. Just like how they weren’t hiding Project 2025. Why would they suddenly have the ability to be so tight lipped about just this issue?

            • the_q@lemmy.zip
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              5 days ago

              Because all the things you mentioned are par for the course and easily digestible by common folks. Actual “cheating” at the polls would do a lot more damage to the country than just Trump being caught being a felon again.

              • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                edit-2
                5 days ago

                They said that about finding out that Bush signed off on torture. Surprise, the evidence changed nothing. The country slumped on, unbothered by war crimes.

                Did the Snowden leaks change anything about the surveillance state? No.

                What makes you think this would be any different?

                To be clear, I’m not trying to be defeatist, I’m trying to be realistic. As far back as the Snowden leaks philosopher Slajov Žižek wrote about this phenomenon and he, even back then, was convinced that in the modern era, with so much information bombarding us, that evidence no longer mattered. He used the Bush torture leaks and the Snowden leaks as his evidence. I’m certainly not the first person to have noticed this pattern in the modern internet era.

                • the_q@lemmy.zip
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  5 days ago

                  No you make good points. I suppose I’m a bit delusional when it comes to still having a sliver of belief in people and systems.

    • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      5 days ago

      Ups software probably installed as system so that it can perform script execution and shutdown properly. That software communicates with the UPS directly. UPS vendors wouldn’t be at the top of my list of security-minded companies.

      The execution path isn’t impossible.

      • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        5 days ago

        I mean, the article focuses more on how the UPSes have SNMP enabled network cards.

        1. SNMP is Simple Network Management Protocol, which is for, well, simple network management, not computer administration, which are different things.

        2. SNMP can definitely be an attack vector, so it’s generally considered good practice to disable it on any ports it’s not absolutely needed. Further, it’s mostly able to be abused for DDOS, although there are some possibilities for network penetration. Network, not computer, once again. Controlling the router isn’t the same as controlling the Server., although it can help you move towards controlling the Server. Still a lot of hoops to jump through from network to server.

        3. Every election is run on a local level, and this would mean that in enough swing states, one of two things was happening: either the election cybersecurity team in all the states affected was technically incompetent or they were somehow in on it and all kept their mouths shut. Both of those are highly unlikely when it comes to the frequency at which this happened all over the country.

        4. While you generally have a good point about script execution via a UPS, once again, does that mean every single cybersecurity team in every state affected was foolish enough to be giving a UPS administrator script execution capabilities? Because just executing a script doesn’t mean the user executing the script has admin rights. Once again, either every team was inept or somehow the famously loose-lipped Trump team was sitting on a zero-day exploit to gain admin access and somehow kept it quiet.

        • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          5 days ago

          I don’t consider snmp to be a big issue, unless someone set up “public” with write access.

          The ups software running on the windows machine would be running as system and would be able to execute whatever it wanted. Usually it’s connecting to the ups through some method (IP, usb serial) to figure out what state it’s in, how much runtime is remaining, and if it needs to execute any stored scripts.

          How do you get a compromised UPS to upload scripts to the windows machine? That I’m not too sure about. I don’t think I’ve seen an ups management system that has that capability.

    • kingofras@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      5 days ago

      I understand where you’re coming from with this angle, but you’re wrong. Very few people need to be involved to get this done. Also, just like with other conspiracy theories that are still publicly frowned upon but highly probably true: I wouldn’t count on internal US people to do the ground work either.

      It is very likely the machines were fixed early to mid 2024. I agree that the UPS theory or starlink is ridiculous.

      I’ve written more here if you want to understand the broader angle. https://lemmy.world/post/27126084

      These two ladies are worth a listen too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk1A-tLIaXY

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    5 days ago

    The truth is worse.

    That there’s more people who want this (or at least did until they realised it meant their families being abducted by ICE) than people who didn’t, and more people still who didn’t give a fuck enough to bother voting.

    That should keep them up at night more than vote rigging.

    • Komodo Rodeo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      5 days ago

      more people still who didn’t give a fuck enough to bother voting.

      For reference, the 2020 U.S. Presidential Election:

      • LogicalDrivel@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        4 days ago

        FWIW, I didn’t vote this past election. Not for lack of trying, mind you. I sent for a mail in ballot and it never showed. I corrected my address (which somehow got switched to an old address) and requested another and every time, the site would throw an error. By that point it was too late and I would need to vote in person which didn’t work because of the address thing. And before people go “well you should have made sure first”, I did. I verified everything months prior and it changed my info after…

        • Komodo Rodeo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          4 days ago

          What a pain in the ass… something about the degree of insoluble complications makes me feel that it may not have been entirely accidental (I know, I know, I have no concrete proof but other countries/jurisdictions are able to avoid these vote annulling scenarios fairly easily). Would it still have been possible for you to vote in your former district, or was it too far away (different city/state)?

  • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    5 days ago

    Let’s be clear:
    Donald Trump pledges allegiance to a red, white, and blue flag—
    It’s just not the American one.

    • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      5 days ago

      Hey, thanks a lot.

      I hope you realize those replies are the body of the linked article. It was too much to individually quote but I’ll try to go back and make that more apparent.

  • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    5 days ago

    This is a source-check on the other substack article which is quoted from above.

    The centerpiece of the new theory is recounted thoroughly in a June 11 Substack post titled “She Won. They Didn’t Just Change the Machines. They Rewired the Election.” Unlike earlier post-election theories, this one doesn’t just focus on theoretical vulnerabilities plus suspicions or vague statistical anomalies. It introduces what it claims is a complete mechanism consisting of software manipulation; a new access mechanism; and a test case.

    New Technical Documentation: It describes engineering change orders (ECOs) showing that Pro V&V, a federally accredited test lab, approved software and hardware changes to ES&S voting machines just before the election, without triggering a full certification review. It did so, according to the new claim, by declaring the changes to be “de minimis” (inconsequential) which allowed the changes to be implemented without a complex recertification process. This “de minimis” claim is presented as essentially bogus — a cover to create an ability to make substantive changes without subjecting them to review.

    A New Starlink Access Pathway: It claims that Elon Musk’s Starlink gained a new, previously unknown access that provided real-time internet connectivity to voting machines, allowing votes to be altered during tabulation.

    ‘A “Smoking Gun” Test Case: It cites five machines in Rockland County, NY, that recorded zero votes for Kamala Harris while showing hundreds of votes for other Democrats in the same precincts. These claims suggest a full system: motive, method, and result. According to the post, this wasn’t just dirty politics or local fraud. It was a coordinated digital operation—technically sophisticated, nationally scaled, and hidden in plain sight.

    . . . Tentative Conclusions

    • The voting machine changes were real, but the idea that Pro V&V scammed the system by claiming “de minimis” to cover up malicious changes does not seem to be supported.

    • The deployment of 265 Starlink satellites just before the election is confirmed, but there is no evidence any of them were ever connected to voting tabulators and it appears they played no role in vote counting.

    • The “zero vote” anomaly has a strong sociological explanation and a clear historical precedent- bloc voting by orthodox jewish communities acting on recommendation of their rabbi. It happened in 2020 with Joe Biden receiving zero votes as well.

    • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      5 days ago

      This is the reply from the “This Will Hold” author:

      “This Will Hold

      5d Edited

      Hi Michael,

      Just here to clarify a few things and offer additional context, especially since some of what you’ve presented includes outdated assumptions about air-gapping, “de minimis” logic, and the scope of Starlink’s role in voting infrastructure.

      Poll Books vs. Tabulators: Yes, Starlink was “officially” contracted to service e-poll books in multiple counties. What’s been largely overlooked is that many poll books share ports and internal pathways with tabulation systems—especially when all components run through a central UPS or networked control unit. In counties using centralized setups or vendor-integrated “turnkey” packages, the distinction between air-gapped systems and externally connected components becomes blurrier than it should be.

      Air-Gapping Is No Longer a Guarantee: The claim that tabulators are “air-gapped” is often cited, but vendor documentation and independent testing contradict that. ES&S DS200s, for example, have modem capabilities that have been activated in previous elections. Add to that the Eaton/Tripp Lite UPS devices with SNMP-enabled network cards—often sitting directly between tabulators and their power/network environment—and it becomes clear there were viable pathways for intrusion, even if indirect.

      The Pro V&V ‘De Minimis’ Loophole: This is a bigger deal than most people realize. Pro V&V certified software changes as “de minimis”—which legally sidesteps a full recertification—but the magnitude of those changes, particularly firmware-level updates across multiple counties, raises major red flags. This isn’t a theoretical concern—it’s part of documented complaints from at least three states.

      Starlink’s Role Is About Access, Not Visibility: No one is saying Starlink was directly connected to every tabulator. The concern is command-and-control level access. Starlink’s DTC capability—enabled by the Gen2 satellite fleet and confirmed by Musk’s own documentation—bypasses traditional network routes altogether. This isn’t your average ISP connection. It’s a dedicated, private mesh that can sync with smart hardware in real time, independent of local firewalls, and it’s also the reason the “air-gap” dialogue is a nonstarter.

      The Ramapo Example (Which I Never Cited): Correct, the voting patterns in ultra-Orthodox communities follow bloc behavior. But that wasn’t my claim. I’ve focused on Clarkstown, where precinct-level data doesn’t follow that sociological trend and includes affidavits from voters whose ballots are inexplicably absent or distorted.

      Evidence vs. Admission: The fact that a post-election forensic audit hasn’t caught this yet doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Many audits are partial, lack administrative access, are candidate-specific, or rely on vendor-provided data. Our report is based on data inconsistencies, confirmed system access pathways, contract timelines, and alignment between satellite activation and vote spikes in key precincts.

      You said: if someone can offer more information or a correction, you’re open to hearing it. This isn’t just a theory anymore—it’s an evidence-based hypothesis backed by infrastructure records, expert forensic analysis, and patterns too precise to dismiss. Add to that a year’s worth of ‘confessions,’ if you will, from the very person who benefited most from the heist.

      We’ve laid the groundwork—there’s more than enough evidence for state attorneys general to open an investigation.

      Thanks! - TWH“

      • aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        5 days ago

        it’s quite a stretch to say that Starlink DTC can connect to any “smart device“.

        is the author trying to say that UPSes have cellular modems or satellite terminals in them?

        • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          5 days ago

          Not that I know of. Here’s a good recap of that part:

          “Air-Gap” Protection — Theory vs. Reality: This is a critical distinction. The idea that voting systems are “air-gapped”—i.e., not connected to any network—is a common talking point, but it doesn’t hold up under scrutiny.

          • Remote updates have been pushed in multiple jurisdictions, sometimes over cellular or satellite connections. Some systems labeled “offline” were shown to have remote management ports.

          • Direct-to-Cell (DTC) satellite capability, rolled out by Musk/Starlink in 2024, allowed access without land-based signals. These satellites could interface directly with LTE modems or integrated modules — no Wi-Fi or Ethernet required.

          • Pro V&V and system vendors never updated threat models to account for these technologies, and security protocols have not evolved with the real-world capabilities of modern equipment.

          So yes — the “air-gap” is now more myth than reality, especially in jurisdictions using equipment with remote-access pathways installed or updated under the guise of “de minimis” changes.

          • aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            5 days ago

            that doesn’t connect the dots. The de minimis update was purportedly to the UPS driver software. Sounds like the implication is that the connection between the UPS and the driver was used to backdoor the systems. Which device exactly was supposed to have received the Starlink DTC connection?

            • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              edit-2
              5 days ago

              I really encourage you to read both articles but it sounds like you might want to start with the comment thread on the second substack one.

              I don’t know, because I’m not anything close to the author but I’ll go see if I can find the answer to that.

              Edit: Okay I think this is the relevant part. Basically the theory is that Palantir’s “digital janitor” was used to upgrade voting machine firmware and then erase itself. That upgrade would allow LTE modems to connect to Starlink. That’s my read, I could be wrong.

              The Activation: Starlink Goes Direct-to-Cell

              That signal came on October 30, 2024—just days before the election, Musk activated 265 brand new low Earth orbit (LEO) V2 Mini satellites, each equipped with Direct-to-Cell (DTC) technology capable of processing, routing, and manipulating real-time data, including voting data, through his satellite network.

              DTC doesn’t require routers, towers, or a traditional SIM. It connects directly from satellite to any compatible device—including embedded modems in “air-gapped” voting systems, smart UPS units, or unsecured auxiliary hardware.

              From that moment on:
              - Commands could be sent from orbit
              - Patch delivery became invisible to domestic monitors
              - Compromised devices could be triggered remotely

              • aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                5 days ago

                Right, which device is supposed to have an LTE modem? that would be an obvious and unusual addition to a UPS.

  • HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    5 days ago

    OK, so let’s prove it then.

    Gather up the irrefutable concrete evidence and watch most of the people of this country either refute it or ignore it because, to them, the alternative is too difficult to face

  • Tinidril@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    5 days ago

    Why would the left wing need a reason why Kamala lost? Any reason that isn’t “because neoliberalism has failed again” works against the interests of the left. To the extent that this idea has any believers whatsoever, it comes from the centrists who desperately need an excuse.

    • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      5 days ago

      Yeah there seems to be a real disconnect about the usage of “liberal” and “left wing” particularly on Lemmy. My guess is that it’s due to a large international presence in which liberal has different meanings in different political arenas.

      That said, I don’t see how your point stands anyway because “left” voters would still want a free and fair election, unless they’re just straight up anarchists or other flavor that doesn’t care about elections.

      • Tinidril@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        5 days ago

        It’s too early to just accept this as fact. It may be true, and may not. It may be true but didn’t swing the election. What’s absolutely true though is that the race shouldn’t have been close enough to even make a Republican win remotely believable.

        The Democrats made it close by putting wealthy interests ahead of voters to the highest degree they thought they could get away with. Dance long enough on the Cliff’s edge and eventually you fall in - or maybe you get pushed. Not a lot of difference ultimately.

          • Tinidril@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            5 days ago

            If every aspect of what’s being alleged is entirely true, then yes. The thing is, it’s a huge collection of different allegations that range from probable to unhinged. They aren’t all going to be 100% true.

            The fact that they spend so much time in their video on Trump saying they don’t need votes is a big red flag to me. They put so much effort into priming people to believe that I don’t think they have quite convinced themselves.

            All of these allegations combined actually pale in comparison with the impact of media consolidation and establishment manipulation of coverage. Our primary process is an absolute travesty that can be trivially manipulated on the whim of the establishment to get whatever outcome they desire.

            • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              5 days ago

              Which parts read as unhinged to you?

              Agreed on the media part, but that’s a very old conspiracy.

              • Tinidril@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                5 days ago

                Agreed on the media part, but that’s a very old conspiracy.

                I hate to use the word “conspiracy” on it - first because it implies that it’s a “conspiracy theory” when most of it happens in plain sight, and second because it’s less of a cabal and more just a bunch of rich folks with common interests acting in common ways.

                Which parts read as unhinged to you?

                Jumping right from claiming that Trump over-performing (compared to down-ticket races) more in swing states than other states leads straight to the conclusion that a “vote changing algorithm” must be responsible for the difference is a big one. There are other perfectly plausible explanations. For instance, maybe anti-establishment sentiment is part of what makes a purple state purple, and anti-establishment Trump voters are more likely to split their ticket. The analysis offered is incredibly shallow, and seems to rely entirely on statistical analysis without considering sociological context. I’m also curious why a group so competent as to be able to pull this off wouldn’t have tipped votes in down-ticket races as well.

                On the other hand, a lot of the voter suppression claims are very plausible, and some are even obviously true. It’s almost not revelatory at all to say that Republicans use voter suppression to win races. Specifics of particular instances are worth questioning, but Republicans have been doing it in the open for decades, and it has definitely blown up in the time since the court gutted the voting rights act.

                There is also the general over-reliance on a single expert, who is apparently “the leading U.S. expert in election forensics”. Looking at his citations, that title is not justified by his academic career. What I see is some mild success early on, and a decade+ drift towards irrelevance. I see a career that could maybe benefit from a prominent association with a media frenzy over a stolen US election.

                • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  5 days ago

                  Oh just conspiracy in “two or more parties working together towards a harmful act” sort of thing. Doesn’t have to be secret.

                  The part about a particular number of votes being needed to trigger the algorithm is an interesting part of it. In that reply to the second substack post he explains why Elmo’s 20 million investment in the Wisconsin supreme court runoff didn’t pay out for him, and it was about volume of votes.

                  There’s also this graphic which is interesting.

                  I haven’t read up on the expert academic but having a stalled career doesn’t discount anything for me if so. The numbers and facts should speak for themselves anyway.

    • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      5 days ago

      Okay, I will: Fascists will always say they’re winning, they’re going to win, and they’ve won, no matter what the reality on the ground is. He would have said the same even if the election went to Harris. Because they project power by promoting the idea that they are strong and perfect and always win and you’re inadvertently giving them power by believing it.

      He also said he would win in a cage match with Zuckerberg, then claimed Zuckerberg was the one who chickened out.