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Why would Joe Biden do this?
What are you trying to accomplish with this comment?
I’m assuming the lack of /s is what’s getting people here
Wasn’t that the plan in the first place, to get media attention?
There was no other realistic option.
the original plan was:
Israel would see them and say, “fine, go ahead and bring food to palestine”.I don’t think, that’s true. During food distribution, multiple people got killed during the last weeks. There was no realistic way of entering the warzone. In the end, one of them gets killed by one of the war parties that claims, the other one did it… There is nothing to win for Israel in this case. They could just let a truck waiting im front of the boarder drive in. That’d help more.
The crew include Rima Hassan, a Franco-Palestinian deputy of the U.E (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rima_Hassan), that has been elected to defend Palestine inside the European Parlement. So that’s not a surprise that the crew has a better treatment that the others.
I’m surprise that the article do not mention her presence
I think they’re getting better treatment because they were very clear that this whole thing is meant to be a publicity stunt. The idea was to have Israel come and intercept them from the start, they never had any plans to actually land on Gaza. This is why they spelled out exactly what they were going to do, why didn’t carry any real amount of aid, and why they were so cooperative when Israel did eventually intercept them.
It is almost 20 months since Israel launched a military campaign in Gaza in response to the unprecedented Hamas-led cross-border attack on Israel on 7 October 2023
It is almost 20 months since the US-backed colonial occupation launched its extermination campaign in Gaza in response to the ghetto uprising on 7 October 2023
20 months since Palestine attacked Israel setting off a war.
Palestinians retaliating for israel oppresing them . Israel should just get the hell out of palestine
This is the very home of millions of people, and the radical view you are expressing doesn’t even let the chance of their existence where they have lived and coexisted (sic.: long before establishing their own state as an independent country!).
What you’re suggesting is not a fair nor constructive solution, but a populist motto for an endless war (and chaos) with hateful rhetorics.
So… not much has unfortunately changed since when, 1948? I think, even before that no partitioning plan by the UN has been accepted (hence the resulting wars).
/ It takes two to tango.
But: haters gonna hate.
Yeah because it was all sunshine and rainbows before then
you’re totally right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
Throwing rockets everytime israel create news settlements, demolish plaestinians homes or protect violent settlers
Why are you only focusing on what Palestine does?
I don’t understand. every single person here aside from maybe one other guy is trashing israel without any regard for Israel’s perspective. the viewpoints here are completely unbalanced. why would you ask that question?
Asking the perspective of occupying forces?
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You aren’t putting forward “Israel’s perspective, you’re just dissing Palestine.
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Israel was created in 1948 and has attacked Palestine and whatever else took its fancy ever since. The father who had gone to register his child, the World Kitchen, a group of ambulances, and now the Madleen crew being particular examples…
But please, enlighten me, what the fuck is their “perspective”?
dude, jews have existed in israel since way before 1948. read about about middle eastern pogroms and get back to me.
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The Oct 7 terrorist attacks weren’t ghetto uprising. They weren’t spontaneous, grassroots, or widespread. They were premeditated terrorist attacks by specific terrorist groups to cause as much harm as they could to the nearby Israeli population. The first and second intifadas could be argued as ghetto uprisings, this is nothing like that.
I suspect Hamas took a page out of Bin Laden’s playbook, and expected Oct 7 to invite an extreme reaction, the same way Sept 11 drew America into two decades of war, thousands of deaths, and trillions of dollars.
America will never recover from 9/11, and Israel will never recover from 10/7, no matter how many Muslims they murder.
I suspect Hamas took a page out of Bin Laden’s playbook, and expected Oct 7 to invite an extreme reaction, the same way Sept 11 drew America into two decades of war, thousands of deaths, and trillions of dollars.
I don’t think Bin Laden predicted America’s reaction to 9/11, most of the world, including Americans didn’t either. I also don’t think Hamas has the capacity to be this strategic. I think it really is as simple as it was. They planned a bunch of terrorist attacks to cause as much harm and damage as possible to Israel and Israelis, and then take a bunch of civilians hostage to escape the consequences that would ensue. I think Hamas banked on Israel’s history of giving up a lot to retrieve their hostages to sign a ceasefire right after the attacks and get the hostages back. They probably didn’t expect Israel to ditch the hostages and start bombing Gaza into oblivion like this.
America will never recover from 9/11, and Israel will never recover from 10/7, no matter how many Muslims they murder.
Countries will always recover from tragedy. If Japan can recover after being burned down and nuked, if Poland can recover from a century of Nazi and Soviet occupation, if China can recover from the worst famine in history, then countries can recover from terrorist attacks and their aftermath.
Though I agree with you that trying to wipe out terrorist groups with force is futile. You can’t erase ideologies with violence. What America did and Israel is doing now is playing a futile game of whackomole where the only thing they end up achieving is killing a lot of innocent people and throwing obscene amounts of money down the drain.
I cringe every time I read “the war in Gaza”. It is clearly a genocide. There is no way one could say otherwise, in good faith. The fact that my tax dollars are funding this sickens me.
Been going on a lot longer than that…
That was not a ghetto uprising, that was unchecked violence against Israeli civilians by terrorists. You do Gaza’s suffering civilians no justice by tying their plight to the actions of Hamas on Oct 7. Their only crime is existing.
not interested in your respectability politics shit, the American enablers have contributed far more to the suffering civilians than Hamas ever has by resisting their extermination.
Not interested in your bullshit takes that would only incite more violence against the Gaza civilians by painting Oct 7 as a popular uprising.
Honestly think before you speak if you actually care about these people.
Learn the history of Israel’s illegal occupation and siege before demonizing the resistance
the history starts before 1948.
It started by foreigner wanting to force a state on local people
the history starts before 1948.
20 months since Palestine attacked Israel setting off a war.
which is it? It’s almost like you’re just another westerner defending a genocide via selective reading of history
They are NOT resisting, these are innocent civilians… I don’t give a shit about Hamas I’m talking about women and children dying in Gaza. How is there disagreement on this basic acknowledgement of reality?
So the Palestinian men can just die off I guess. According to you
No but these people are so dense that i have to spell it out like that so they understand the difference I’m drawing between Hamas/combatants/uprising vs. women and children living peacefully in their homes and not harming anyone on this planet but still getting bombs dropped on their heads. But still it’s on deaf ears.
Israel is committing a genocide, as all settler colonial states eventually do, no disagreement there.
The disagreement is over whether Palestinians have a right to resist settler colonialism and forced displacement. International law and natural law says they do, it is obvious, but people who live in settler colonial states that were successful in eradicating the indigenous population won’t make that inconvenient admission.
Hey here comes the comfortable westerner to tell everyone what they think is bad optics.
This genocide could never happen without the Biden and Trumps full support. Hand-wrining about “terrorism” only serves defending the perpetrators while posing like you care about victims.
Sickening behavior really, but I’m used to it by now. American soldiers are terrorists, IDF are terrorists.
It’s not about bad optics, you are literally doing what Israel is doing by equating Gaza civilians as “combatants” and thus making them targets. These people had nothing to do with Oct 7 I’m talking about little children and doctors and mothers and teachers and you’re on about this fucking freedom fighter uprising bullshit because you’re more concerned with justifying violence against Israel than caring about how many kids get bombed and starve to death in Gaza.
Fuck that bullshit.
You are the one making excuses for the occupation by calling their victims terrorists. A ghetto uprising describes the conditions accurately. You are the one doing the work of Israel by pretending that they have ever discriminated between ‘combatants’ and everyone else.
I guess feigning moral superiority must be how you sleep at night after a long day of jorkin it to Ukraine war killcams or whatever it is you weirdos do for fun.
This genocide could never happen without the Biden and Trumps full support
I mean… No. This has been happening for 80+ fucking years and Israel would be doing it with or without US support.
They would certainly be trying, but it’s a lot harder to exterminate a captive population when you aren’t getting supplied a whole arsenal to do so.
They would certainly be trying, but it’s a lot harder to exterminate a captive population when you aren’t getting supplied a whole arsenal to do so.
Yes, I’m sure that captive populations aren’t regularly exterminated without the backing of major MICs.
Ok… So a bit different than “it could never happen”
It is a ghetto uprising. Israel before the genocide used to calorie count the food allowed in.
Tell me… how many civilians did the Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto murder? Was the IDF transporting trainloads of Civilians from Gaza to extermination camps?
It’s necessary to call out „Bibi“ and his friends and get them far away from any kind of power asap and forever. Also a whole lot of IDF troops (just like any like-to-be religious facists from the government) should get an „invitation“ to The Hague.
But comparing the massacre from October 7th to the Warsaw ghetto uprising is just ridiculous.
They had complete control over the lives of people in Gaza to the point of calorie counting how much food was allowed in.
Was the IDF transporting trainloads of Civilians from Gaza to extermination camps?
They didn’t need to, their victims are already in the concentration camp, they just dumped unlimited amounts of US-made bombs gifted to them by their colonial patrons.
Also a whole lot of IDF troops (just like any like-to-be religious facists from the government) should get an „invitation“ to The Hague.
At this point every American politician acting on behalf of this should need to get tried for complicity as well.
This was a ghetto uprising, sickening that you feel the need to defend their executioners. The “murder factories” are on American soil, no need to ship people on trains, the colonists will happily deliver the US-made bombs to their victims.
Israel didn’t need to put them on trains to extermination camps, they just turned the entirety of Gaza into an extermination camp.
The Nazis built literal murder-factories. The only purpose of those buildings was to murder as many people as possible and dispose of the bodies fast and efficiently. They tried to catch everyone that fit their definition of so called „unworthy life“ from all over Europe and brought them to their extermination camps to murder them. This is not what happened in Gaza before October 7th and it’s not what’s happening there now.
Even if half the stuff I read about Gaza was made up, there would be still more than enough reason to put Bibi and his goons behind bars forever. I think it’s necessary to be as precise and accurate as possible when talking about these kind of crimes because the truth is horrible enough without spicing it up with history-forgotten comparisons.
Feddit.org users again trying to act like they care about palestinians. You are ignoring the fact that every single goddamn israeli government was oppresing palestinians and comiting act of terrorism
Would you be less supportive of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising if they did kill more civilians in Nazi Germany?
Masha Gessen
For the last seventeen years, Gaza has been a hyperdensely populated, impoverished, walled-in compound where only a small fraction of the population had the right to leave for even a short amount of time—in other words, a ghetto. Not like the Jewish ghetto in Venice or an inner-city ghetto in America but like a Jewish ghetto in an Eastern European country occupied by Nazi Germany. In the two months since Hamas attacked Israel, all Gazans have suffered from the barely interrupted onslaught of Israeli forces. Thousands have died. On average, a child is killed in Gaza every ten minutes. Israeli bombs have struck hospitals, maternity wards, and ambulances. Eight out of ten Gazans are now homeless, moving from one place to another, never able to get to safety.
The term “open-air prison” seems to have been coined in 2010 by David Cameron, the British Foreign Secretary who was then Prime Minister. Many human-rights organizations that document conditions in Gaza have adopted the description. But as in the Jewish ghettoes of Occupied Europe, there are no prison guards—Gaza is policed not by the occupiers but by a local force. Presumably, the more fitting term “ghetto” would have drawn fire for comparing the predicament of besieged Gazans to that of ghettoized Jews. It also would have given us the language to describe what is happening in Gaza now. The ghetto is being liquidated.
The Nazis claimed that ghettos were necessary to protect non-Jews from diseases spread by Jews. Israel has claimed that the isolation of Gaza, like the wall in the West Bank, is required to protect Israelis from terrorist attacks carried out by Palestinians. The Nazi claim had no basis in reality, while the Israeli claim stems from actual and repeated acts of violence. These are essential differences. Yet both claims propose that an occupying authority can choose to isolate, immiserate—and, now, mortally endanger—an entire population of people in the name of protecting its own.
Adi Callai
Another case that is especially important to me as a Jewish person, having studied our history of persecution and rebellion, is the Sobibor Uprising. The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is of course the most famous Jewish revolt of that era, and many people made the analogy, including Refaat Alareer, a Gazan poet who generated controversy for drawing this comparison on BBC, and who was murdered by Israel as a possible consequence. The Sobibor revolt, while much less well known, was more of a success story. Sobibor was a concentration camp where, in 1943, realizing they were all going to get killed, a small group of maybe twenty people, some of them prisoners of war, organized in secrecy, came up with a sophisticated plan to kill high-ranking SS officers, sabotage the electricity and communications infrastructure, take the guards’ weapons, loot the armory, arm the other inmates, open the gates, and let people escape and join the partisans. Launched on October 14, 1943, it worked, to an extent. Approximately half of the camp escaped. But only about fifty rebels survived the war. Still, that’s a much higher percentage than would’ve survived otherwise. And of course, there are infinite differences between these cases, but I instantly thought about it when I got the news from my sister, who lived in one of the settlements of the Envelope until October 7, in the family WhatsApp group, saying that their power went out, that there was some kind of sabotage of the electricity infrastructure in the October 7 operation.
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
Do we consider the armed German settlers living around the ghetto in a foreign country civilians? I mean they brought their own children to help colonize their new living space.
The Israeli government needs to release their hostages.
This is something that I see a lot and it’s irks me the wrong way every time. I know that people on the internet get emotional, but we gotta stop abusing words. The word hostage describes something very specific, in this case it’s this:
a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge pending the fulfillment of an agreement (source)
Basically a hostage is a prisoner that is specifically held captive to be used as a bargaining chip.
This is precisely the reason why the hostages taken by Hamas are called as such. They were taken with intention of using them to cut a deal with Israel later on. But in this case, Israel is very unlikely to use the people on this boat to negotiate any deal, we don’t even know if they’re even going to be detained or released once the ship gets routed to one Israel’s ports. But if Israel does detain after the fact then that’s just imprisonment.
They have absolutely used Palestinian prisoners as bargaining chips. Many imprisoned Palestinians have not been convicted of a crime.
Okay, but we’re talking about this crew specifically. They serve no purpose as hostages.
Does it also mean if someone abduct someone just for vengence without any demand to the family of the victim mean he don’t have a hostage?
I’m sorry, but I’m having a difficult time understanding what you’re asking. Are you asking if someone counts as a hostage if they got abducted by someone else just for vengeance? If so, then no, they’re not hostages. This would be considered a kidnapping.
Ok, don’t you think detaining people that comitted no crimes at all is illegal?
Illegal? No, most countries arrest people on grounds of probable cause. In this case, Israel can just cite that they arrested this crew for national security reasons, which is technically legal. During their arrest they’ll determine whether or not they want to file charges against them. If they do then they’ll proceed to a trail, otherwise they’ll be released.
They didn’t find any arms and was arrested outside of israeli terroritory. It is illegal in fact the whole blockade is illegal. It is so disgusting that you defend an occupying force https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo.amp
I’m not defending it, I’m just pointing that the detainment of this point and it’s crew is technically legal. Agreeing or disagreeing with is irrelevant to the point.
So what term then? Political Prisoner? Arbitrarily Detained Prisoner? Torture Subject?
Detained suspect, Detained for National Security or equivalent is probably what goes on the paperwork. If they’re held longer than reasonable repatriation takes, they would then become prisoners of some type.
Informally, prisoner is probably used the most, in spite of whatever is actually correct.
Genuine question, how did you come up with any of these? Do you just throw any random label without taking into account what they mean?
To be imprisoned means to be kept in confinement as a punishment. They’re not prisoners by the definition of the word nor are they being tortured (like where did you even get this from?). If we were to label their current status accurately then they’re arrestees in custody of Israel.
Starvation is a form of torture, and there are many reports alleging other forms of torture.
Do you have any evidence that this crew is being starved or tortured?
Palestinians in Israeli custody.
According to Israeli human rights organization HaMoked between 1 October and 1 November, the total number of Palestinians held in administrative detention, without charge or trial, rose from 1,319 to 2,070.
Testimony from released detainees and human rights lawyers, as well as video footage and images illustrate some of the forms of torture and other ill-treatment prisoners have been subjected to by Israeli forces over the past four weeks. These include severe beatings and humiliation of detainees, including by forcing them to keep their heads down, to kneel on the floor during inmate count, and to sing Israeli songs.
You understand we’re talking about this crew, right? You understand you posting this has zero relevance to the claim you made or the topic at hand, right?
I hope Germany, France, Brazil, Sweden, Turkey, Spain, the Netherlands, and Ireland starting fighting for the return of their hostages now that Israel has illegally kidnapped them. If not, what a fucking betrayal of the social contract, beyond how shredded and tattered that’s become in the modern day and age.
Yeah that’s not happening, Sweden’s foreign Minister has already come out and said that Greta Thunberg is safe, is a moron, and doesn’t need help but if she does then she’ll get the same help by the embassy as any other Swedish citizen:
Several protesters had gathered outside the Parliament House on Monday. This is to call on the Swedish government to act against Greta Thunberg and several other activists being arrested at sea outside Gaza.
“Israel has, as we judge, some opportunities to escort this ship with the international law,” the foreign minister said when she was interviewed outside the Chamber.
Israel claims Thunberg is “safe.” Swedish Foreign Minister Maria Malmer Stenergard believes that Thunberg is currently not in need of the Ministry for Foreign Affairs’ support.
“There is a great responsibility on those who choose to travel in violation of the advice that exists into a place,” says Malmer Stenergard.
“If she gets a need for consular support, we will do everything we can, just as we do with all Swedish citizens,” she continues. Encouraged to put pressure
The Ministry for Foreign Affairs is said to have been called down on Monday, says Malmer Stenergard. This after Greta Thunberg on social media urged “friends, family and comrades” to put pressure on Sweden’s government. This is what Maria Malmer Stenergard can have consequences.
“It is quite dangerous to conduct a campaign that means that the Ministry for Foreign Affairs’ consular emergency services will be called down. As a consequence, that the needy Swedes in the world will have to wait far too long in line, says the foreign minister.
Would it be feasible to chill off the coast and use drones to bypass the blockade to deliver aid?
I’m sure the range is too far or someone would have already done it, but it’s an idea.
The point of this was never to deliver aid. The point was to have the exact result that has played out. It’s doubtful they were even carrying food, they did this with the intent on being boarded to produce propaganda. The IDF handed out sandwiches to mitigate the propaganda. Both parties knew how it would play out, the Freedom Flotilla got some video to monetize, mission accomplished, I guess.
Also there is no way to distinguish between a drone carrying food from a Houthi drone carrying munitions. The drones would be shot down. Though you never know, the Freedom Flotilla crowd might try it if they feel that it would be good propaganda. Though it’s doubtful since whatever boat they launched these drones from would be quickly boarded and they would be detained for potentially a long time before it could be verified the drones they launched weren’t weapons.
Gaza is under a declared blockade. Israel has the legal right to board any ship bound for Gaza under international law. The whole Freedom Flotilla thing is just dumb entertainment for the ignorant. It changes exactly nothing.
I’ve seen this one… it’s called The Phantom Menace
Do y’all reckon the Israeli Navy is actually going to kill Greta?
My guess is that somebody will choke first in this game of chicken. Hopefully it’s the Israeli military.
No, this is what will realistically happen:
- They’ll intercept the boat
- They’ll haul it to a nearby Israeli port (like the port of Ashdod)
- They’ll detain and question the people on board for a bit to confirm their identities
- They’ll call their respective embassies in Israel
- They’ll have them either released to the embassies or directly deported to their countries
And that would be the end of it.
And 6. The aid that was meant for the starving children of Gaza will be stolen, destroyed, or left to rot in some warehouse.
The aid is just symbolic. Gaza has 2 million people, a single small sailboat worth of partial cargo isn’t enough to even be considered a drop in the bucket. The only real way humanitarian aid can make a difference is if Israel and Egypt allow hundreds of tucks in daily.
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sails into military blockade with the stated purpose of running the blockade
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gets intercepted
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pikachu-face
People of conscience disagree with the morality of this “blockade,” which is a nice weasel word by the way, when really what’s happening is people of Gaza are being exterminated while under total siege.
I disagree with the morality of personalized motorized transportation. Yet I don’t stand on a fucking highway and then make a surprised pikachu face when I get arrested.
This was what always was going to happen. They knew this was always going to happen. This is nothing to be surprised by, this whole action is just a publicity stunt.
Do you see how these two are not equivalent though? One is an aggressive campaign exterminate a people, that can be stopped if just slightly more political will is mustered.
Already, the tide is turning and you have even mainstream voices yapping at Israel to cease.
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